Amazing support and install, Jesse went through everything and made sure I was comfortable with my equipment before leaving. He also introduced me to the world of anodizing and now I am hooked! Highly recommend them for any tech you may need. - 8/23/2022
Logan Riggs
I always rely on Frank to help with any questions or concerns regarding our printer. The best in tampa. - 1/25/2023
Mitchell Rubinstein
I purchased my medit i500 scanner about a year ago from CAD Ray, and I have been extremely happy with both the scanner and the service / support.
Armen and Frank consider your purchase to be the beginning of your relationship with them, not...read moreI purchased my medit i500 scanner about a year ago from CAD Ray, and I have been extremely happy with both the scanner and the service / support.
Armen and Frank consider your purchase to be the beginning of your relationship with them, not the end. They do their best to make sure you learn everything you need to know in order to get the best possible results .
They answer calls and messages promptly, and it never takes me very long to get my questions answered.
I am VERY glad I bought from them, and not from one of the "big box" Dental Mega retailers.read less - 10/09/2019
Excellent support and price on our medit IOS! Bought a second one a year later. Can always count on Armen and Frank for help when we need it. - 6/16/2020
Francois Dillinger
These guys are the best. They provide so much help and insight with the Medit. I can't say enough great things about them and their continued support. I truly appreciate everything!! - 6/16/2020
Cary Ganz
One of the best companies I've dealt with in decades of dental practice. Not only is the product excellent but the support both personally and online has been just wonderful. - 8/08/2021
Russell Schafer
Overall great company to work with. They sell wondeful products and give stellar service for a much lower price than any of the supply houses. I can't recommend them enough. - 8/19/2022
Lance Timmerman
Implant Planning Services Review I Am VERY experienced with "another system" but thought I would give CAD-Ray a try. At at LEAST 1/3 the fee, why not?
VERY happy. Fit GREAT, surgery was uneventful (the best kind) and I am a believer! This is a great company and great PEOPLE to...read moreI Am VERY experienced with "another system" but thought I would give CAD-Ray a try. At at LEAST 1/3 the fee, why not?
VERY happy. Fit GREAT, surgery was uneventful (the best kind) and I am a believer! This is a great company and great PEOPLE too! 5 stars aren't enough. Just like the Burj Al Arab, this is 7 star!read less - 3/03/2015
Artin Sakhaee
The support is even better then the camera itself. I used many other scanners and this is by far the best one. Recommended to many people. Looking to purchase a second one for my practice. The use and results are amazing. No adjustments to the p...read moreThe support is even better then the camera itself. I used many other scanners and this is by far the best one. Recommended to many people. Looking to purchase a second one for my practice. The use and results are amazing. No adjustments to the prosthetics at all.read less - 7/15/2020
Kelly Betts
Customer service has always been top-notch! I personally worked with Wayne Glassoff and he has been super helpful getting our office up and running with 3D printing and has always been a great resource and highly responsive whenever I need anything o...read moreCustomer service has always been top-notch! I personally worked with Wayne Glassoff and he has been super helpful getting our office up and running with 3D printing and has always been a great resource and highly responsive whenever I need anything or have any questions.read less - 9/24/2022
Cole Smith
These guys are great. My favorite part about them is they set you up for success with your products. A lot of dental companies will be happy to sell you big ticket tech item but don't have much to set you up for success. I bought the Medit i500 and t...read moreThese guys are great. My favorite part about them is they set you up for success with your products. A lot of dental companies will be happy to sell you big ticket tech item but don't have much to set you up for success. I bought the Medit i500 and they have tons of videos on how to get it working and working well for you in your office. If you need a much of hand holding they have that our if you are like me and like the do it yourself videos they have that. I am sure you can buy these products all over but it is there service that sets them apart. If to are looking to buy some dental tech use these guys!read less - 6/05/2020
Aaron Gelfand
Worked with Laura and she is incredibly knowledgeable. She gave me all the right advice and steered me in the right direction. Her ongoing support is as good as it gets. I feel like I have a 24 hour team at my beckoning call. For the meat and pot...read moreWorked with Laura and she is incredibly knowledgeable. She gave me all the right advice and steered me in the right direction. Her ongoing support is as good as it gets. I feel like I have a 24 hour team at my beckoning call. For the meat and potatoes. I got an Icam 4D from her and now I am printing all on 4 arches same day surgery at our practice in Denver(NUSET). We are going to put ICams and Trios’ in all our offices thanks to Laura and the Cad-Ray team. If you have any questions about the workflow and the success we are having with the Digital work flow call Laura and I will help you succeed with her product support.Thank you Laura and Cad-Ray!read less - 4/28/2022
Mital Patel
Cad-ray has been awesome with support and training! I got the medit in 2018 and couldn’t imagine practicing without it! Armen and frank somehow seem to be available at all hours of the day, and I can typically have them remote in same day if I need a...read moreCad-ray has been awesome with support and training! I got the medit in 2018 and couldn’t imagine practicing without it! Armen and frank somehow seem to be available at all hours of the day, and I can typically have them remote in same day if I need any help.read less - 6/16/2020
Kristian Dietz
My wife and I practice together and bought our first i500 in August of 2018. This was very early on before Armen had a vast number of technique and online support articles in his blog! Little was publicly known at the time about this new scanner bu...read moreMy wife and I practice together and bought our first i500 in August of 2018. This was very early on before Armen had a vast number of technique and online support articles in his blog! Little was publicly known at the time about this new scanner but I felt confident in my purchase for a few reasons: 1) Armen had validated the product and was standing behind it... I knew of Armen from DentalTown and had many years of public posts to evaluate his character; 2) Limited demos available at the time; 3) some clinical accuracy data out of Europe that required zooming in on a powerpoint presentation that was recorded second-hand via camera phone ha! SO needless to say, I put a lot of eggs in the "Armen is standing behind this product" basket. We have NOT been disappointed. From personalized service from both Frank and Armen, to our vast success and joy using the product and deciding in late 2018 to buy a second Medit i500, I have nothing but good things to say about the product and Cad-Ray. What a bunch of self-less individuals. Armen has offered to remote in and I even took him up on the offer once and he remoted in immediately to take a look at something. Good luck getting service like this from ANYONE else in the industry. Cheers to digital dentistry with the RIGHT partner. Kristian C. Dietz, DDSread less - 3/08/2020
Got a great deal in the medit i700 and the training was top notch. I had about 3 one hour sessions with Ryan at cadray and he was clear, concise and knowledgeable in both the software and hardware components of the computer/scanner and the detailed a...read moreGot a great deal in the medit i700 and the training was top notch. I had about 3 one hour sessions with Ryan at cadray and he was clear, concise and knowledgeable in both the software and hardware components of the computer/scanner and the detailed aspects of the dentistry itself. Got a direct line going forward and would recommend cad ray to anyoneread less - 8/17/2022
Barton Davis
Every time I need support for my scanner, the Cad-Ray team is there to help. I recently had a question on how to manipulate a scan and export it back to Medit Scan. Damien logged in and helped me out. Problem solved in under five minutes. Awesome ser...read moreEvery time I need support for my scanner, the Cad-Ray team is there to help. I recently had a question on how to manipulate a scan and export it back to Medit Scan. Damien logged in and helped me out. Problem solved in under five minutes. Awesome service. Thanks Cad-Ray support team!read less - 3/04/2022
Inna Vinnikov
Frank was fantastic in helping me obtain my medit scanner. He answered all of my questions in detail. After the purchase of the scanner, he continued to follow up with me and presently remains a tremendous support with any concerns that may arise. Wa...read moreFrank was fantastic in helping me obtain my medit scanner. He answered all of my questions in detail. After the purchase of the scanner, he continued to follow up with me and presently remains a tremendous support with any concerns that may arise. Was a great experience overall from transitioning my practice into a digital world!read less - 1/25/2023
Cody Boseman
Cad-ray has been amazing, not to mention they have an amazing product in the medit i500. Their training is great, customer service is quick and thorough, and follow up is consistent. I highly recommend using cad-ray for anything that you may need. - 6/19/2020
All Clear
Great experience with CAD-Ray, specifically Damien, with purchasing and customer service with servicing a scanner that needed replacing under warranty. All around excellent service and I will definitely come back for future technology we'll eventuall...read moreGreat experience with CAD-Ray, specifically Damien, with purchasing and customer service with servicing a scanner that needed replacing under warranty. All around excellent service and I will definitely come back for future technology we'll eventually be adding to our practice.read less - 10/23/2024
Michael Martinsen
Honestly the best service that I've received in dental tech support. I had originally purchased a scanner with another supplier and was underwhelmed with the support I received. I switched over to CAD-Ray for my second scanner and have never been let...read moreHonestly the best service that I've received in dental tech support. I had originally purchased a scanner with another supplier and was underwhelmed with the support I received. I switched over to CAD-Ray for my second scanner and have never been let down. They are prompt and exceptionally knowledgeable about the products they support. Thank you CAD-Ray for keeping my practice moving smoothly!read less - 8/27/2021
Stuart Adam
Amazing team!
Andy was amazing with explaining everything needed to be successful with the medit i700 and encouraged me to give CADRAY a call if I have any questions in the future. I have some colleagues that have regarded CADRAY as the gold stand...read moreAmazing team!
Andy was amazing with explaining everything needed to be successful with the medit i700 and encouraged me to give CADRAY a call if I have any questions in the future. I have some colleagues that have regarded CADRAY as the gold standard for service and I can now say that I completely agree. Thank you!read less - 12/27/2021
Cad-Ray is the absolute best if you're in the market for digital dental tools. I have purchased two Medit scanners through them. There will be hiccups with any complex piece of machinery, but every time I have needed Cad-Ray, they have been there. I ...read moreCad-Ray is the absolute best if you're in the market for digital dental tools. I have purchased two Medit scanners through them. There will be hiccups with any complex piece of machinery, but every time I have needed Cad-Ray, they have been there. I recently had a scanner go down. I called Cad-Ray tech support and they got me on the phone with Medit immediately. Within a day, a replacement scanner was sitting on my desk. It doesn't get much better than that.read less - 10/03/2024
George W
Frank DeLuca has been my rep for almost a year and has provided excellent, caring, professional service and with a great attitude. - 1/25/2023
Dong Lim
I’ve been using Medit for close to 2 years. It’s a must for any practice. No evil monthly subscription and great support from CAD ray - 6/16/2020
Angelique Freking
I recently purchased the Medit i500 and am in love. I've used all the other scanners in my career, but this is my favorite hands down. I had a very easy, great purchasing experience and would happily refer anyone to this company and this particular s...read moreI recently purchased the Medit i500 and am in love. I've used all the other scanners in my career, but this is my favorite hands down. I had a very easy, great purchasing experience and would happily refer anyone to this company and this particular scanner.read less - 6/19/2020
Thanh Huynh
I am beyond impressed with Destaney and Cad-Ray! Despite accidentally throwing away my old scanner, which I was supposed to return, their team went above and beyond to advocate for me. Their exceptional support and understanding turned a stressful si...read moreI am beyond impressed with Destaney and Cad-Ray! Despite accidentally throwing away my old scanner, which I was supposed to return, their team went above and beyond to advocate for me. Their exceptional support and understanding turned a stressful situation into a seamless experience. Highly recommend!read less - 8/02/2024
lucas kim
Ordered some scanner parts. Laura was super helpful and replied very quickly. Great customer service! - 6/02/2022
Norman Knowles
I have had the original iTero, a Trios 3, and a Carestream CS3600. A staff member broke the lens on the Trios and while waiting 3 weeks for an RMA to send it to Poland for six weeks to get it repaired, Carestream was sniffing around and suggested tha...read moreI have had the original iTero, a Trios 3, and a Carestream CS3600. A staff member broke the lens on the Trios and while waiting 3 weeks for an RMA to send it to Poland for six weeks to get it repaired, Carestream was sniffing around and suggested that I trade in my Trios so I did which began a 4 month nightmare with their piece of junk scanner. Absolutely awful customer service from both 3Shape and Carestream. I needed a scanner and had heard great things about it the Medit i500 at the Florida Academy of Coesmetic Dentistry so I got one. It works really well and Medit keeps adding new and useful features and their architecture is completely open. Two weeks ago, my i500 died so I contacted Cad-Ray surrport and I had a new unit in my office 24 hours later! That's absolutely unheard of in the industry!!! Both Cad-Ray and Medit have positioned themselves to be industry giant killers and they're doing it. The i500 is a phenomenal scanner at a phenomenal price point and service and guidance at Cad-Ray is just plain excellent.If you are thinking about getting a scanner, do it! Just contact Cad-Ray and go for it. You will only be happy about your purchase! Highly recommended!read less - 3/09/2021
Mary Oliverie
Last year when I started looking into the Medit i500 I had my front desk call 3 sellers to get preliminary information. She told me hands down call CAD-RAY and don’t bother with the others. Boy was she right! Frank got us going with all our hardware ...read moreLast year when I started looking into the Medit i500 I had my front desk call 3 sellers to get preliminary information. She told me hands down call CAD-RAY and don’t bother with the others. Boy was she right! Frank got us going with all our hardware needs and trained us until all our questions were answered. Then Jonathon and Armen jumped in at our 2 day live training in Baltimore. I still review my notes to implement all the great ideas. When I get myself in a jam time to time CAD-RAY responds immediately and fixes my problem. Best decision I have made in the practice in a long time - Thank you everyone at CAD-RAY!read less - 10/09/2019
Cad-ray has to be the best company to work with when it comes to digital dentistry solutions. Here are the reasons why: 1. Experience. Everyone in the company has extensive experience in dentistry. They have used all digital platforms and offer custo...read moreCad-ray has to be the best company to work with when it comes to digital dentistry solutions. Here are the reasons why: 1. Experience. Everyone in the company has extensive experience in dentistry. They have used all digital platforms and offer customers first hand experience. 2. Honesty. Based on their experience they share all the good/bad of different systems. They work with you to find a solution that works best for you. Not sell you the piece of the equipment that gives them the biggest commission. 3. Support. Cad-ray offers the missing piece of the dentist/digital manufacturer puzzle. Many other distributors sell you a piece of equipment but don’t have true day-to-day experience with that equipment. Cad-ray’s team openly share their expertise to help customers optimize their workflows with great technology. 4. Passionate. The Cad-ray team is extremely passionate about their craft. They truly believe in what they have to offer. I took Armen Mirzayan’s course on intraoral scanning and it was truly mind blowing. Armen’s insights will help any dentist optimize their craft. I purchased the full sprintray 3d printing ecosystem the help of Frank. I plan to purchase more equipment from cad-ray. Also, Jesse is a genius in regards to all aspect of digital workflows. I’m truly grateful for this company and everyone who I’ve worked with so far.read less - 10/07/2022
Scott Terry
Six Stars! On a scale of one to five, I give CAD-Ray six stars. They really are that good. If you are purchasing an intra-oral scanner, I would recommend buying the Medit I-700. It is a dream machine. But, if you want incredible service every time, y...read moreSix Stars! On a scale of one to five, I give CAD-Ray six stars. They really are that good. If you are purchasing an intra-oral scanner, I would recommend buying the Medit I-700. It is a dream machine. But, if you want incredible service every time, you should buy your scanner from Cad-Ray. They have come through with flying colors each time I have contacted them. Their sales team great and their service is amazing. They have volumes of educational videos available, as well. I have worked with Jonathan, Damien, Frank, Armen and Laura. In a time where we are seeing the opposite, CAD-Ray will totally blow you away with the entire experience. I totally appreciate them and their value.read less - 11/01/2021
Miller Loriaux
Absolutely love dealing with this company. Purchased two intraoral scanners from them over the last 3 years and the support has been beyond exceptional. Frank patiently walked me through all the basics with many a phone call (to his personal cell p...read moreAbsolutely love dealing with this company. Purchased two intraoral scanners from them over the last 3 years and the support has been beyond exceptional. Frank patiently walked me through all the basics with many a phone call (to his personal cell phone, no less) on the first go round. Whenever we've even had a hint of technical difficulty there is ALWAYS a knowledgeable voice on the other end of the line. After 3 years of use a significant issue came up with the scanner and they went above and beyond to get it back up and running. Was so impressed (and I realized how dependent we've become on a scanner) that I purchased another one.Needed some assistance submitting a Valplast RPD design digitally this week. Damien worked me through it in literally 5 minutes and took the time to optimize my graphics card performance while he was there. Top shelf service.Certainly, the first place I go with any dental tech purchase.read less - 6/04/2022
David Forrest
I have used a medit scanner i purchased from CAD-Ray for a few years now. I've had nothing but great customer service with them, and their facebook group is great for nearly instant feed back before the days end. I actually just bought another scanne...read moreI have used a medit scanner i purchased from CAD-Ray for a few years now. I've had nothing but great customer service with them, and their facebook group is great for nearly instant feed back before the days end. I actually just bought another scanner from them because they've been awesome to work with and have enjoyed the first one so much. I'm def a long term fan of theirs now.read less - 2/20/2024
Levy Do
I'm a repeat customer because Cad-Ray's customer service is fast, efficient, and no nonsense. The classes offered for training for particularly for the Medit is awesome and it comes included which is phenomenal. All the classes that I've gotten to at...read moreI'm a repeat customer because Cad-Ray's customer service is fast, efficient, and no nonsense. The classes offered for training for particularly for the Medit is awesome and it comes included which is phenomenal. All the classes that I've gotten to attend so far has been well organized and I left learning very practical things. Remote support team solves my problem right then and there. Recently I had an issue, and instead of me talking to a sales rep who doesn't know what to do, Kaila remoted in and got it fixed just like that. Thank you and great job guys!read less - 4/19/2022
Dr Grace Simco
I bought I500 scanner two years ago. The scanner is great and the service is excellent. I have contacted Heather Gramley and Andy Nova about the updates of my scanner recently. They are absolutely amazing people. They go above and beyond. They repres...read moreI bought I500 scanner two years ago. The scanner is great and the service is excellent. I have contacted Heather Gramley and Andy Nova about the updates of my scanner recently. They are absolutely amazing people. They go above and beyond. They represent the company very well.read less - 7/05/2022
Kaila is awesome with training and her customer service skills. Enjoy learning from her... Product (scanner) so far loving it. - 12/02/2021
Lauren Schulte
Frank and the CAD-Ray team are fantastic! They go above and beyond to help their doctors be successful. The CAD-Ray team doesn't just sell you a product and leave you high and dry. Frank is always ready to answer questions and offer support when need...read moreFrank and the CAD-Ray team are fantastic! They go above and beyond to help their doctors be successful. The CAD-Ray team doesn't just sell you a product and leave you high and dry. Frank is always ready to answer questions and offer support when needed. I highly recommend!read less - 1/24/2023
W Timothy Brooks
Excellent fast color scanner. A great improvement over my old proprietary scanner. Easy to learn software and great free technical support. - 6/18/2020
I have had zoom training with Andy today. I can honestly say that he was the best. He was patient and very throughal. I learned a lot I would ask him again when I need support again Thanks Rodger - 3/15/2023
Anu Isaac
I am a new user of Medit i500. My rep Andy was very good with the training & very detailed & patient with the whole process. The online support is one of the best. I ordered it from CADRay. The purchasing process was quick & easy. Install...read moreI am a new user of Medit i500. My rep Andy was very good with the training & very detailed & patient with the whole process. The online support is one of the best. I ordered it from CADRay. The purchasing process was quick & easy. Installation was also fairly straightforward. The staff is excited about the purchase. Can't wait to use it. Highly recommend purchasing it. Good practice booster.read less - 12/25/2021
Kaila and Laura were amazing to work with. I would not hesitate to buy again from them. Super helpful/available and one of the best experiences I’ve had making such a big investment in equipment like I had to make for my practice. Way to go Cad Ray f...read moreKaila and Laura were amazing to work with. I would not hesitate to buy again from them. Super helpful/available and one of the best experiences I’ve had making such a big investment in equipment like I had to make for my practice. Way to go Cad Ray for running a solid business!read less - 11/15/2024
Yen Tran
Jonathan and Nick have been a great tremendous help. They went out of their ways to help me upgrade my Medit i500 even though I didn’t purchase my Medit i500 scanner from them. They are the largest Medit scanner distributor and they have the custome...read moreJonathan and Nick have been a great tremendous help. They went out of their ways to help me upgrade my Medit i500 even though I didn’t purchase my Medit i500 scanner from them. They are the largest Medit scanner distributor and they have the customers’ interest at heart. They are super responsive to phone calls, emails, and Facebook messages. I highly recommend their servicesread less - 9/01/2021
Thomas Lim
5 stars for a great product and great service. After much research I knew I was set on the Medit 500. I considered some of my local equipment reps, as well as cad-ray. Cad-ray won out due to their efficiency, speed of service, and knowledge. Their on...read more5 stars for a great product and great service. After much research I knew I was set on the Medit 500. I considered some of my local equipment reps, as well as cad-ray. Cad-ray won out due to their efficiency, speed of service, and knowledge. Their online presence makes it easy to get help via messaging, social media, or phone. The fact that one of the employees of Medit (an engineer?) posts on the cad-Ray Facebook group speaks volumes of the vendor-mfg relations.
The scanner itself works great, but make sure to contact them to get the minimum specs required for a laptop — it will make a difference in how the scanner performs. I had some slow scans at first but upgraded from 8gb to 32gb ram and also got some coaching from customer service (Frank) to get me up to speed.
To make the scanner mobile, I purchased this cart from Staples: https://www.staples.com/Oklahoma-Sound-Premium-Audio-Visual-Presentation-Cart-40-1-2-H-x-18-W-x-30-D-Black-Ivory-Wood/product_932437.
Lastly, I purchased “3M Dual Lock Fastener” to keep the power module attached to the wand from falling off the cart. I carry the scanner between two offices, so I wanted something sturdy, but removable. (see in photos). The hockey puck shaped holder (comes with the scanner) is heavy and sticks to the countertop without needing any adhesive.read less - 10/12/2019
I just purchased the CAD-Ray unit at Chicago Mid Winter meeting. We have used it for single crowns so far and have been very pleased. Nick was my sales contact and he has helped a great deal with some of our 'learning curve " issues. I looked at a nu...read moreI just purchased the CAD-Ray unit at Chicago Mid Winter meeting. We have used it for single crowns so far and have been very pleased. Nick was my sales contact and he has helped a great deal with some of our 'learning curve " issues. I looked at a number of scanners and felt CAD-Ray was the best-two of the labs I use also feel it is the best scanner.read less - 5/12/2020
Kristine Keshishyan
My Intraoral scanner was not working. It wouldn’t scan, during the scan the screen was completely blue. I contacted Laura and she logged in remotely and took care of the problem. She was extremely helpful and knowledgeable. Thank you Laura for your o...read moreMy Intraoral scanner was not working. It wouldn’t scan, during the scan the screen was completely blue. I contacted Laura and she logged in remotely and took care of the problem. She was extremely helpful and knowledgeable. Thank you Laura for your outstanding service. Thank you.read less - 12/07/2021
Dennis Wong
Best support ever. They are super responsive when a problem occurred, and immediately set up a support ticket with the vendor who contacted me within the hour to help me to solve the problem. - 7/27/2023
Dino Mantis
I purchased the Medit700 a couple of months ago. I have the Cerec Primescan and what a difference!!! The Medit is easy to use and efficient!!! They have a great support system> Laura Geney is amazing. She is almost like being on call anytime I have a...read moreI purchased the Medit700 a couple of months ago. I have the Cerec Primescan and what a difference!!! The Medit is easy to use and efficient!!! They have a great support system> Laura Geney is amazing. She is almost like being on call anytime I have a question. If she is not available (which was only once) the person that helped me logged in and took care of my problem!! I highly recommend this scanner!!!read less - 12/30/2021
Gabriel Joel
Medit i500 is an incredible scanner. I have experience with other types of scanners including IO and Desktop but this one is really impressive. It is blazing fast and takes beautiful scans. But more importantly is the company itself. Medit is an amaz...read moreMedit i500 is an incredible scanner. I have experience with other types of scanners including IO and Desktop but this one is really impressive. It is blazing fast and takes beautiful scans. But more importantly is the company itself. Medit is an amazing company and is constantly trying to improve. They are always on the cutting edge and releasing new improvements all the time. They are always LISTENING to the customers on how to improve the scanning experience and change accordingly. The customer service is second to none. I highly recommend this scanner but even more highly recommend considering buying the scanner as a result of the great company and PEOPLE that stand behind it.read less - 10/09/2019
In just under a decade, we have turned dental implants from the most risky and stress inducing procedures we can perform both surgically and restoratively into one of the most...
This case demonstrate some advanced features our CAD-Ray software provides for CAD/CAM users. We first launch meditlink and define the prescription. You can take your time and input your selection...
The CORiTEC one can handle multiple types of blocks. It is also upgradable to pucks to mill round house prosthetics. In this video, we demonstrate the milling of a 40...
At any given time, we are milling restorations with 3 or 4 milling machines. Recently, we designed a restoration with the Medit i500 scanner, designed in exocad, and milled with...