These guys are 1st in class service every time! - 7/08/2022
Miguel DeLeon
I seriously can't believe the amount of support I get from Cad-Ray. I bought a medit scanner 2 months ago through Laura and she was very quick to get it shipped to me. She helped me through the whole process and ensured that I was passed to the right...read moreI seriously can't believe the amount of support I get from Cad-Ray. I bought a medit scanner 2 months ago through Laura and she was very quick to get it shipped to me. She helped me through the whole process and ensured that I was passed to the right people to train me. They were always available whenever I called, even one time I ran into an emergency after hours and Kaila picked up and saved the night. Very cool how they can remote access to my computer and guide me through as if they were right next to me.I also recently bought an Ackuretta Sol printer with Laura's help and she got me paired up with Jessica for my printer training. Jessica is so awesome! She is very knowledgeable and guided me through a lot of troubleshooting and set me up for success.Thank you guys so much!! I will always refer my friends to you all.read less - 4/13/2022
dr sheth
It was very powerful and enlightening experience today to do 2 day sessions with Dr. Armen and Damien. I learned a lot, quite amazed by how much we can do with knowledge and Medit scanner. As usual great support by CAD-RAY always. I absolutely love M...read moreIt was very powerful and enlightening experience today to do 2 day sessions with Dr. Armen and Damien. I learned a lot, quite amazed by how much we can do with knowledge and Medit scanner. As usual great support by CAD-RAY always. I absolutely love Medit scanner.read less - 8/08/2021
Stephen S
Choosing an digital intraoral scanner these days can be quite a daunting task. When I reached out to CAD-Ray, as was recommended by many colleagues, I was connected to Frank DeLuca, and he made my decision-making process very simple. Upon receiving...read moreChoosing an digital intraoral scanner these days can be quite a daunting task. When I reached out to CAD-Ray, as was recommended by many colleagues, I was connected to Frank DeLuca, and he made my decision-making process very simple. Upon receiving my 3shape Trios 4 scanner, Frank and the entire tech support team/customer service were very helpful every step of the way. Frank makes himself available when he can in order to address all of the questions I have regarding the digital workflow. I highly recommend CAD-Ray. It will make your transition to digital scanning a positive experience.read less - 1/24/2023
Melissa Poynter
Very pleased with Heather :) She has been able to solve any and all issues I may be having, and does so within the same day if not right away! - 6/16/2022
Aaron Sipos
CAD-RAY has the best customer service. They go above and beyond to make sure you have a good experience with your medit scanner. With most tech companies, the person that answers the phone has to put you on hold for who knows how long before getting ...read moreCAD-RAY has the best customer service. They go above and beyond to make sure you have a good experience with your medit scanner. With most tech companies, the person that answers the phone has to put you on hold for who knows how long before getting you in touch with someone to fix the issue. With CAD-RAY, I called and Heather answered the phone. Heather was able to remotely fix my issue within 30 minutes and have me back up and running. No holds, no waiting!!! I highly recommend.read less - 9/01/2022
Jaspreet Ghuman
Shout out to Nick, Frank and Armen ! Cheers . Great customer service by Nick and Frank. Too early to make a comment about the scanner but these guys are awesome. - 9/19/2020
Michael Conte
Needed help with scanner updates and Frank is the man! Once he was done the scanner was operating in hyper-drive!!thanks frankoffice of Glenmont Dental - 2/15/2022
Daniel Kim
CAD-Ray's online resources and customer support has made my Medit scanner implementation possible without the need for any hands on training. They are full of resources and have expert knowledge. - 7/01/2021
Trident Dental
Great help when you need it. Frank, Armen and team will take care of you. - 12/10/2021
Lauri Ann
I am about the worst person when it comes to technology. I decided to get a scanner and chose the Medit due to all the positive comments users had. I haven't used it much-the pandemic started right as I received it, however, the customer service has ...read moreI am about the worst person when it comes to technology. I decided to get a scanner and chose the Medit due to all the positive comments users had. I haven't used it much-the pandemic started right as I received it, however, the customer service has truly been amazing! I had an online training and a rep checked in with me several times to see if I needed help. I am going to do another online training soon as a refresher. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this company and scanner to anyone!read less - 6/16/2020
Michael Gagaoudakis
Awesome company. The video collection CAD-Ray has put together for their equipment is unparalleled. There is literally no other company that has a library of learning tools like Armen and his team have put together. I highly recommend this company if...read moreAwesome company. The video collection CAD-Ray has put together for their equipment is unparalleled. There is literally no other company that has a library of learning tools like Armen and his team have put together. I highly recommend this company if you are considering making a digital equipment investment. 5 stars!read less - 6/16/2020
Shefali Pilar
Our office has been using the Medit scanner for a few months now and are loving it! CAD-Ray was super easy to work with in purchasing the scanner and providing support as needed. Their Facebook forum with the updates and video tutorials are incredibl...read moreOur office has been using the Medit scanner for a few months now and are loving it! CAD-Ray was super easy to work with in purchasing the scanner and providing support as needed. Their Facebook forum with the updates and video tutorials are incredibly helpful.read less - 6/16/2020
Steven Cisternas
The future of digital dentistry is here now. Cad-ray provides all the tools needed to make it possible for us to provide digital care to our patients. Thanks Damien and Armen for a great course. - 8/07/2021
Gunther Heyder
Fantastic Scanner. Has changed the way I practice dentistry. Opens up more time in my schedule and opens up new methods to allow for more consistent, satisfactory results. Customer service is fantastic. Feels like friends are on the other side of the...read moreFantastic Scanner. Has changed the way I practice dentistry. Opens up more time in my schedule and opens up new methods to allow for more consistent, satisfactory results. Customer service is fantastic. Feels like friends are on the other side of the phone. Good work CAD-Ray!read less - 12/08/2021
Matt Stratman
only dental company that I have no complaints about - 11/03/2022
Steven Hechtman
As important as the decision of which scanner to buy (I bought the Medit i500 - why is a separate review) is the decision of who to purchase it from. There is a Medit i500 distributor 5 miles from my office who agreed to lower their price to match C...read moreAs important as the decision of which scanner to buy (I bought the Medit i500 - why is a separate review) is the decision of who to purchase it from. There is a Medit i500 distributor 5 miles from my office who agreed to lower their price to match Cad-Ray. So why did I purchase it from Cad-Ray who is 2000 miles away from my office. Because I did my homework. Because the post purchase training and support offered by Cad-Ray was unmatched by any other dealer I spoke with. Their library of online training videos that came with the purchase is without equal. Bottom Line: I’m glad I purchased the Medit i500 and, with hindsight, I know I made the right choice to purchased it from Cad-Ray!read less - 5/12/2020
Evelyn Chan
Going with CAD-RAY and Laura is one of best investment I've made year 2020 ( I have MEDIT 500). Jumping into scanning is something that intimidated me since I am not a techie person and taking PVS impression is something second nature to me. Laur...read moreGoing with CAD-RAY and Laura is one of best investment I've made year 2020 ( I have MEDIT 500). Jumping into scanning is something that intimidated me since I am not a techie person and taking PVS impression is something second nature to me. Laura made everything a breeze, she is very accomodating and most importantly responds so fast, I never felt left out. Attending the level 1 course of Armen M. was awesome , learned the basics and it was taught in a way so easy to apply. Since my first scan, I never looked back, thinking to myself , I should have done this earlier. The crowns comes back with little to no adjustements which saves a lot of chair time. Cannot get better than this. Big shout out to CAD-RAY, Laura and Armenread less - 10/19/2021
The customer service we have received while working with Frank DeLuca is second to none! He is incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic, as well as always available to help with any issues. We are very pleased with CAD-RAY and relationship that they...read moreThe customer service we have received while working with Frank DeLuca is second to none! He is incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic, as well as always available to help with any issues. We are very pleased with CAD-RAY and relationship that they have with their clients.read less - 1/25/2023
Reid Stone
I cannot say enough good things about Cad-Ray and the people involved with this organization. I have purchased equipment over the past few years from them and always been amazed at the non-pushy before the sale help and the after the sale support. ...read moreI cannot say enough good things about Cad-Ray and the people involved with this organization. I have purchased equipment over the past few years from them and always been amazed at the non-pushy before the sale help and the after the sale support. I have been deciding for the last 2 years to make a big purchase of a mill and sintering furnace and Jon has never made me feel like I was bothering him and never pushed me just to try to get a sale. It really is different from other sales experiences I've had with other companies/sales people.Jesse came out and installed and provided training for our new mill and sintering furnace. He went above and beyond what I was expecting to make sure myself and my team knew how everything works during the training. He has also been great with questions we have had since the installation. I just cannot say enough good things about my experience all around and will definitely be a Cad-Ray customer for many years to come. Thank you Cad-Ray!read less - 6/15/2022
North Bakersfield Dental
Excellent customer service and product!! - 3/16/2022
Lisa Greenstein
Exceptional customer service - 7/26/2023
Thomas Lim
5 stars for a great product and great service. After much research I knew I was set on the Medit 500. I considered some of my local equipment reps, as well as cad-ray. Cad-ray won out due to their efficiency, speed of service, and knowledge. The...read more5 stars for a great product and great service. After much research I knew I was set on the Medit 500. I considered some of my local equipment reps, as well as cad-ray. Cad-ray won out due to their efficiency, speed of service, and knowledge. Their online presence makes it easy to get help via messaging, social media, or phone.
The scanner itself works great, but make sure to contact them to get the minimum specs required for a laptop -- it will make a difference in how the scanner performs.
To make the scanner mobile, I purchased this cart from Staples: https://www.staples.com/Oklahoma-Sound-Premium-Audio-Visual-Presentation-Cart-40-1-2-H-x-18-W-x-30-D-Black-Ivory-Wood/product_932437.
Lastly, I purchased "3M Dual Lock Fastener" to keep the power module attached to the wand from falling off the cart. I carry the scanner between two offices, so I wanted something sturdy, but removable. (see in photos). The hockey puck shaped holder (comes with the scanner) works great for holding the wand itself.read less - 10/10/2019
The i500 has been a game-changer for our orthodontic practice. Patients love not having to do alginate impressions. Records appointments and debands take much less time plus there's significantly less clean-up. And it's fast/easy enough to use tha...read moreThe i500 has been a game-changer for our orthodontic practice. Patients love not having to do alginate impressions. Records appointments and debands take much less time plus there's significantly less clean-up. And it's fast/easy enough to use that we've even been able to train summer interns to scans with zero prior dental experience. Our retainers, nightguards, and sleep apnea appliances all showed improved fit with less chair-side delivery time due to accuracy of the scans. Customer support is top-notch. Whenever we've had issues, we get someone immediately and they either talk us through a fix or login via screenshare to help us directly. They have a great loyalty program which gives significant discounts to upgrade to newer units. We recently took advantage and are excited to try out the new i700, especially since they're now Mac-compatible. Simple version: Great intra-oral scanner, easy to use/operate, intuitive software interface, fantastic support.read less - 8/16/2023
Mark Evans
I’d like to tell you a story about CAD-Ray.com.
I ordered a VHF N4+ from CadRay. About two weeks after the order was placed, they called me up and said, “VHF just got an exclusive with “The Big Boys” so they are cutting ties with all the little ind...read moreI’d like to tell you a story about CAD-Ray.com.
I ordered a VHF N4+ from CadRay. About two weeks after the order was placed, they called me up and said, “VHF just got an exclusive with “The Big Boys” so they are cutting ties with all the little independent distributors. They just called us, and we just found out. What this means is that we won’t be able to provide you service after purchasing the VHF mill that you just bought.”
Now, they could have just left it at that. They could have said, “Sorry, it’s out of our hands.” They could have said, “We appreciate your business, but it’s not our fault.” They could have said, “That’s the way the cookie crumbles.”
But they didn’t.
Frank Weinstein calls me up and tells me that they want to make this right, so they are going to hook me up with a brand new Imes Coritec One+ for the same price as the VHF. The Coritec One+ is like the Mercedes of mills for in-office. This is the new model that just barely came out. It is a 5 axis mill. It does wet and dry milling. It does blocks and pucks. It mills all materials know to man, including Vibranium. It can also fly the space shuttle, and make all your wishes and dreams come true. It’s that good. It came with the laptop, Exocad, all the tools, and all the bells and whistles. It came fully loaded. It came white glove delivered to my office. It came with in office training. It came with the extra bur package. It came with everything and the kitchen sink.
So, I paid 36k for a mill, and because of something that was not Cad-Rays fault, they ended up giving me a 60k mill for the same price.
In the words of the great Tony Stark: “That’s how Dad did it. That’s how Cad-Ray does it. And it’s worked out pretty well so far.”
Thank you Frank Weinstein and Armen Mirzayan for having outstanding customer service and going the extra mile every time.read less - 4/02/2021
Rich Hirschinger
I had an issue that was due to the Medit settings. Damien logged on remotely to my laptop, and resolved the issue in a couple of minutes. Fantastic service. Thank you. - 8/27/2021
Preston Poole
Great company with even better customer service. Premier dental business with digital dentistry and scanners! - 11/03/2022
Donghyun Noh
Just purchased i700 and had training with Andy.
Andy was very patient and informative . He went through everything and made sure I was comfortable with my equipment before leaving. I am really excited about this new technology. - 1/05/2023
Instant support, nice people at Cad-Ray but LOTS of trouble getting CIT 12m same-as-cash approval as offered. CIT fumbled around for 7d in finding credit report. Eventually fed up with inactivity or support after lifting Equifax credit freeze and d...read moreInstant support, nice people at Cad-Ray but LOTS of trouble getting CIT 12m same-as-cash approval as offered. CIT fumbled around for 7d in finding credit report. Eventually fed up with inactivity or support after lifting Equifax credit freeze and directed to Experian quagmire of automated phone calling tree.read less - 1/09/2021
Barton Davis
Every time I need support for my scanner, the Cad-Ray team is there to help. I recently had a question on how to manipulate a scan and export it back to Medit Scan. Damien logged in and helped me out. Problem solved in under five minutes. Awesome ser...read moreEvery time I need support for my scanner, the Cad-Ray team is there to help. I recently had a question on how to manipulate a scan and export it back to Medit Scan. Damien logged in and helped me out. Problem solved in under five minutes. Awesome service. Thanks Cad-Ray support team!read less - 3/04/2022
Alex Compton
I had been looking into scanners for a while and I could not deny the good reviews of CAD-Ray, so I gave them a call. I was pleasantly (not) surprised by the excellent service I received. Laura Geney set up a call quickly and very simply and plainly ...read moreI had been looking into scanners for a while and I could not deny the good reviews of CAD-Ray, so I gave them a call. I was pleasantly (not) surprised by the excellent service I received. Laura Geney set up a call quickly and very simply and plainly discussed with me my options. She gave me all the information I needed as well as told me about all the available specials I would be able to take advantage of! I ordered my Medit i700 and very soon after received training for myself and dental staff. We have been very happy with the service from CAD-Ray and look forward to maintaining a long lasting relationship with them. Would strongly recommend Laura and CAD-Ray!read less - 4/07/2022
Jeffrey Martins
Service at CAD-Ray has been really great. About 6 months ago I purchased a Medit i700 scanner from them and have been really happy with it. Fortunately, I haven’t run into many problems, but if I need help they are so easy and friendly to work with. ...read moreService at CAD-Ray has been really great. About 6 months ago I purchased a Medit i700 scanner from them and have been really happy with it. Fortunately, I haven’t run into many problems, but if I need help they are so easy and friendly to work with. When my scanner did stop working, they quickly got me set up with a new one. If I have a computer question, they offer to log in and look at the computer with you. If you’re in the market for an intraoral scanner or any of their other products, I encourage you to talk with them to meet your goals. Thanks CAD-Ray!read less - 11/04/2022
John Pisacane
I purchased my Medit scanner after the ADA meeting in 2018. I did it primarily on the personal recommendation of Armen Mirzayan, the owner of Cad-Ray. I have known Armen for over 15 years (we both were CEREC trainers) and he has always been unbeli...read moreI purchased my Medit scanner after the ADA meeting in 2018. I did it primarily on the personal recommendation of Armen Mirzayan, the owner of Cad-Ray. I have known Armen for over 15 years (we both were CEREC trainers) and he has always been unbelievably knowledgeable about dental technology and was always moving on the cutting edge.
When you see Armen's daily FB posts, it’s obvious that he is constantly pushing the envelope and exploring the limits of the Medit and the processes we use to idealize our push towards completely digital dentistry. Medit owners are fortunate to have Armen finding glitches and pushing for improvements in our scanner.
As far as after sale service, I can’t find a flaw with Cad-Ray. You won’t find a more supportive and dentist-centered company. Armen and Frank do everything to make purchasers happy and back up their sales.
I’ve heard of horror stories when people shopped elsewhere and only positive comments about Cad-Ray.
In summary, buy your Medit and other high tech equipment from Cad-Ray, you will be totally satisfied.
.read less - 10/08/2019
We are a new user of Medit i600. My rep Andy was very good with the training & very detailed & patient with the whole process. The online support is one of the best. Installation was also easy and straightforward. Our staff is really happy...read moreWe are a new user of Medit i600. My rep Andy was very good with the training & very detailed & patient with the whole process. The online support is one of the best. Installation was also easy and straightforward. Our staff is really happy with this new addition to our office. Thank youread less - 9/23/2022
Can not say enough great things about Cad-Ray. Purchase an intraoral scanner from them and have had to have their support team help out a couple of times. They are top notch! I will be purchasing all of my tech they offer through them - 7/07/2022
Chirag Vaid
I ordered my Medit scanner from them in Feb 2020, so far no issues with support or the product. They are a great company with great support. Disclosure: they did promise me a scanner tip for this review, but in all honestly I was meaning to give it t...read moreI ordered my Medit scanner from them in Feb 2020, so far no issues with support or the product. They are a great company with great support. Disclosure: they did promise me a scanner tip for this review, but in all honestly I was meaning to give it to them anyway.... if you are looking to buy, this is a great way to go about it.read less - 7/19/2020
Kurt Adamson
I purchased My first Medit i500 in Sept 2019, fairly easy to set up and learn. I was able to follow the instructions and videos without a problem. I learned tips and trick along the way by following the facebook groups. Anytime help was needed the g...read moreI purchased My first Medit i500 in Sept 2019, fairly easy to set up and learn. I was able to follow the instructions and videos without a problem. I learned tips and trick along the way by following the facebook groups. Anytime help was needed the group at Cad-Ray were quick and sincere finding a solution to problems. I ended up purchasing 2 more i500's in Dec 2019 for my other 2 offices. I didn't think I would enjoy the digital workflow as much as I do. If you on the fence like i was, just do it. get on the facebook groups and post the tips you learn along the way.read less - 1/17/2020
Armen is a dentist and knows what a dentist need, on other words cad ray sells technology that works for dentists! - 6/16/2020
Ernesto Carmona
When I decided to purchase a digital scanner I decided on user experience. They have provided the best experience I could have asked for, from online support, Facebook support, and in person courses. There is no better team to buy Medit from period...read moreWhen I decided to purchase a digital scanner I decided on user experience. They have provided the best experience I could have asked for, from online support, Facebook support, and in person courses. There is no better team to buy Medit from period. Do yourself a favor and buy from them if you are in the market for an intraoral scanner.read less - 6/16/2020
Thomas Lim
5 stars for a great product and great service. After much research I knew I was set on the Medit 500. I considered some of my local equipment reps, as well as cad-ray. Cad-ray won out due to their efficiency, speed of service, and knowledge. Their on...read more5 stars for a great product and great service. After much research I knew I was set on the Medit 500. I considered some of my local equipment reps, as well as cad-ray. Cad-ray won out due to their efficiency, speed of service, and knowledge. Their online presence makes it easy to get help via messaging, social media, or phone. The fact that one of the employees of Medit (an engineer?) posts on the cad-Ray Facebook group speaks volumes of the vendor-mfg relations.
The scanner itself works great, but make sure to contact them to get the minimum specs required for a laptop — it will make a difference in how the scanner performs. I had some slow scans at first but upgraded from 8gb to 32gb ram and also got some coaching from customer service (Frank) to get me up to speed.
To make the scanner mobile, I purchased this cart from Staples: https://www.staples.com/Oklahoma-Sound-Premium-Audio-Visual-Presentation-Cart-40-1-2-H-x-18-W-x-30-D-Black-Ivory-Wood/product_932437.
Lastly, I purchased “3M Dual Lock Fastener” to keep the power module attached to the wand from falling off the cart. I carry the scanner between two offices, so I wanted something sturdy, but removable. (see in photos). The hockey puck shaped holder (comes with the scanner) is heavy and sticks to the countertop without needing any adhesive.read less - 10/12/2019
Cadray has great support and service! They are very responsive to questions. Love the new medit scanner! - 5/06/2021
P. Andrew Benson
For me, getting this scanner was not a choice between Medit vs Itero or Medit vs Trios. Those companies have already eliminated themselves from consideration based on ridiculous cost, ridiculous ongoing fees, and greater concern for petty proprieta...read moreFor me, getting this scanner was not a choice between Medit vs Itero or Medit vs Trios. Those companies have already eliminated themselves from consideration based on ridiculous cost, ridiculous ongoing fees, and greater concern for petty proprietary posturing than for ensuring full functionality of their products to their usership. Typical dental tech company stuff.
The real decision was between Medit vs continuing life in analog dentistry. Medit through Cad-ray was really the only choice. Awesome packages , awesome access to free training videos, awesome software updates, awesome access to live support, awesome support staff.
There's just nothing better in dentistry than to get a great product AND a chance to stick it to the man.read less - 6/16/2020
Kaila Larson is the support specialist for our office and has been outstanding. She gets back to us quickly with any questions we have, and will log into the computer and fix issues so we don't even have to worry about them. She is extremely knowled...read moreKaila Larson is the support specialist for our office and has been outstanding. She gets back to us quickly with any questions we have, and will log into the computer and fix issues so we don't even have to worry about them. She is extremely knowledgeable about the MEDIT scanner and the supporting software. She responds to calls and texts or emails and will communicate with us in whatever way is most convenient for our office. She has saved us hours of time and headache by always being available to help.read less - 5/25/2022
John Allen
fantastic support, I always ask random, specific to me, could be found on a training video, questions and they always quickly tell me how to fix my problem. - 6/16/2020
Tiffany Lee
This is a unique place because it serves both dentists and patients. For patients, this is an imaging center only. There are no diagnostics done here. There is a dentist on staff, but he is only there for imaging purposes, no diagnosis. As a dentist,...read moreThis is a unique place because it serves both dentists and patients. For patients, this is an imaging center only. There are no diagnostics done here. There is a dentist on staff, but he is only there for imaging purposes, no diagnosis. As a dentist, I would say that to be fair a niche place like this couldn't be expected to bill insurances. They would have to hire an entire separate staff to deal with all the thousands of types of insurances you have. For dentists: This is a great service to your patients because if you do not own a 3d x ray machine, you don't have to invest the $200,000.00, you can refer your patients here and cad ray will send you the digital files. You can also send them files to have custom surgical guides made. The folks who work here go out of their way to explain how things work. If you don't have a doctor, they can refer you to a dentist who can diagnose your problems. I always call ahead to make an appointment.read less - 6/02/2018
Mehryar Ebrahimi
Great costumer service. I needed a part for my i700 and they were able to ship overnight. No down time. - 5/06/2022
Maggie Sh
I’ve been using Medit 500 since spring of 2021 and really like it. The support system has been very good so far. I just called yesterday and spoke with Frank Deluca, he was very informative and helpful. - 12/07/2021
David Chong
Digital dentistry has changed my work flow for the better and could not imagine going back. So important that I have the support when things don't work as expected. CAD-Ray has been there every step and trust their expertise and knowledge! - 4/20/2022
Erica Zolnierczyk
Purchased the Medit right before the COVID shut down, which gave us time to train on it by watching all the awesome videos CAD-Ray provides. If I couldn’t figure something out, our questions were answered quickly. Now we’re back and using it like cra...read morePurchased the Medit right before the COVID shut down, which gave us time to train on it by watching all the awesome videos CAD-Ray provides. If I couldn’t figure something out, our questions were answered quickly. Now we’re back and using it like crazy. It’s quick, my assistant picked it up quickly and my cases have been coming back perfect. Super happy with the Medit!read less - 6/16/2020
Christopher Chin
This was my intro into intraoral scanning and I did research for quite awhile. The i500 and the team at Cad Ray are top notch. The company has done such a great job putting this scanner in the ranks of the premier ones. With constant updates it gets...read moreThis was my intro into intraoral scanning and I did research for quite awhile. The i500 and the team at Cad Ray are top notch. The company has done such a great job putting this scanner in the ranks of the premier ones. With constant updates it gets better and better (though I’m still behind on updates). My crowns have never been better. They drop right in with no models. I didn’t believe it but I’m loving digital dentistry. I can’t wait to go to the class after COVID calms down!read less - 6/16/2020